Monster Theater subs

[95Honda]

I will be building a set of subwoofers for a theater system soon. Dual 18s in each enclosure (building a pair). Woofers will be a Tumult variant. 3kw to each set by a pair of QSC power amps. 1 1/4" MDF construction, 12-16 cubes each.... They will tip the scales at 500lbs I'm betting... I'll keep you guys posted on the build up...

-Mike

[Kyle Richardson]

That will be a killer system, but I expect no less than BIG from you. :)

[Robert]

150db home theater system?:puker: Need to put that on the TL when its done. Shit, might have to take a trip out that way this summer to see it.

Are to you taking any precautions to your house to handle that kind of bass? It would be kinda funny to be watching a movie and seeing all the nails come out of the walls..

[95Honda]

Dude, this isn't for my house.....

I'm in the Middle East right now..... :)

[95Honda]

Update-

The drivers will be on there way soon, Dan has cooked up something quite special for me. They will have features Adire hasn't used before. Hopefully he may chime in on this thread and fill in the details.... I am getting pretty excited about this project. I already would have had the wood cut, but someone burned up our tablesaw and we are waiting on a replacement motor, but it should only be a few more days till I start cutting.

The more I look at these plans I drew up, the more I realize these are going to be some serious subs..... I am also going to be running the Outlaw processor, can't remember what one, but it is thier top of the line model, with balanced outputs.. I have an absolute buttload of power also, besides the QSC sub amps, I have 4 more PLX 2Kw models and 2 Carver 500wpc amps.... This theater is going to rock.... I will have well over 10Kw of power running in here.... All of the mains are large JBL horn pro-sound speakers, so efficiency will be up there.....

Also, the more I figure the size of the cabinets I also realize the weight may be a little more than I had anticipated... Probably about 800lbs for the pair, easily......

Believe it or not, the toughest thing to get here for the construction was Gorrilla glue, I had to have someone ship it to me from Spokane through postal, I couldn't buy it here or have it shipped from any companies due to Hazmat constraints.... Funny thing is my 4 gallons of contact cement showed up a few days ago, without any paperwork.... Go figure....

A soon a sI get cutting, I'll start posting pics of the buildup. It's going to be sweet...

[MikeS]

"Believe it or not, the toughest thing to get here for the construction was Gorrilla glue, I had to have someone ship it to me from Spokane through postal, I couldn't buy it here or have it shipped from any companies due to Hazmat constraints.... Funny thing is my 4 gallons of contact cement showed up a few days ago, without any paperwork.... Go figure...."

Yeah, that makes sense.......didn't realize Gorilla glue is more toxic than contact cement.

I hope those subwoofers are for a permanent install.
800 pounds...yikes!
I gotta see the progress of those beasts......

[doc]

So I've got to ask, are you like building a theatre (not home, but actual THEATRE) for the troops over there? I can't imagine any other reason for all that gear. Damn, talk about fun!

[95Honda]

Yep, theater for the troops.....

[doc]

That's badass man, they certainly picked the right man for the job. Can't wait to see pics!

[95Honda]

Well, I have so busy I haven't had time to do much, but today I cut all the wood. It took me weeks to get metric arbor blades to fit the tablesaw I have here. Anyway, I cut all the pieces... THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO HUGE! It didn't really hit me untill I layed all the pieces together to test fit after cutting... They are about the size of a medium sized fridge.... They came out being 49" x 27" x 30" external..... all 1 1/4" MDF..... retarded big.... Easily 250lbs each just in wood so far.... I'll throw up some pics in the next few days... I'll begin assembly this weekend....

[95Honda]

Cabinets assembled. Sunday I will bondo and beltsand and router...

[MikeS]

Yeah, those are monster sized subwoofer cabinets. Damn.........

I don't think you mentioned what the tuning frequency will be.

I guessing the two dividers are where a slot type port will be?

I hope the enviroment these beasts will be operating in is rather solid, 'cause when you get 3000 watts at 20 Hz times two, shit's going be movin'........

Awesome.

[95Honda]

Tuned to about 23-25 Hz... They should definetly put out the low end. They are going in a rather larger theater, so they will be just about right, size and output wise...

[95Honda]

Ready for carpet and woofers...

[BKOLFO4]

Sweet. I cannot wait to someday get my AVA's in ported enclosures.

[95Honda]

close up of the port

[95Honda]

Slight change of plans. I am going with different drivers. Right now I am trying to decide either on the McCauley 6174 18" subs or the Aura NRT18-8. I will know in the next day or so. Either way, it will rock.

[BKOLFO4]

Too bad. . . .Man you have been probably the BIGGEST Adire fan I know of since joining any of these forums several years ago.

Brian

[95Honda]

Yeah, I know. I have also bought probably the most drivers from them as a hobbiest also.... Probably at least 100 or so over the last few years.... But, I got the shaft, bad, so it's in the past.

Anyway I am finalizing the purchase of 4 of the Aura NRT18-8 (current version of the 1808 ).... Probably one of the baddest PA subs out there, and has as much stroke as the 18s Adire was going to build for me. They will also work well in the enclosures I already had. McCauley couldn't have enough drivers ready quick enough to ship, so no big deal there...

These babies will be done in a few weeks, I can't wait!

[95Honda]

Quick snapshot of the predicted response. Notice the red line, on top, predicted SPL with 1250 watts per woofer, and this is for one cabinet... Looks promising..... Green line, excursion, looks pretty decent also... I think these things will throw down nicely... Wish I had a copy of BBPRO here...

[MikeS]

http://www.forceaudio.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=415&d=1165236626

You can stuff a couple toddlers in there.......

[Kyle Richardson]

You can stuff a couple toddlers in there.......
I've already been there and done that. Of course that was nearly 5 years ago and I'm sure my kids wont fit in it as easily as they used to :)

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/customer_showcase/individuals/kyle_richardson/images/richardson_sub_006.jpg

[95Honda]

Nice... Was that box for some BP 18s or something? It looks huge... Man, if you still had those I sure as hell would have taken 4 off your hands in a heartbeat for this project at the price they were... I kick myself in the ass all the time for not buying a bunch of those things from you...

I also have been thinking alot about what I will put in the truck for subwoofage when I get home... I still have that pair of Tempest 12s that have been sitting in the garage for about a year... Heh heh heh... Sorry Poohbah... Know I have been slow with putting them to use...

[Kyle Richardson]

It was originally for an Adire Maelstrom but I later switched it out for the BP1803 which is being used today.

[95Honda]

Funny you say that, my first instinct was Maelstrom.... I was thinking that 2001 was pre-Mael though.... Remember mine about 3 years ago? 12+ cubes and 2 6" ports.... Later Line-X'd and sold it.... Man that thing belted out the lows.... Just had to watch the power on it though.... Clank! Clank! Clank!

[95Honda]

Well, Aura came through, they are shipping me 4 NRT18-8s this afternoon, so I'm in buisness again!

[Kyle Richardson]

Good to hear Mike!

[95Honda]

Ok, got the cabinets carpeted, corners put on and the castors. They really look good. The carpet turned out flawless. My friend used his camera, real bad resolution, I'll post better pics when we drop in the subs.

The second picture is the center channel array. It uses 2 JBL cabinets, each with 2 15s and a large horn. They are sitting on steel stands I made at the appropriate take-off angle for the audience from the stage at the bottom of the screen. Also, they are in a V-pattern that gives seamless horizontal coverage for about 80-90 degrees.... In other words, perfect dispertion for a center channel iun a large theater. I have a dedicated Crown CE2000 to run them (2000 watts rms).... Yes, they get loud....

This project is really coming along, this theater is absolutely going to be killer.

[doc]

Looking badass man... Wish I could hear that when it's finished!

[Audio Junkies]

Ohhhhh Awwwwww....

Looking good! :thumright:

[speakerboy]

Looks really good...just wondering - Why disn't you go with something a little more readily available, like the Eminence Kilomax 18's or something? My father-in-law builds sound systems for chuches and schools, and also installs digital church organs. He uses Eminence all the time and does not have an issue getting drivers. The lowest pedal on an organ is 16hz, so his boxes have to get down that low.:twisted:

He built the sound system in the 1800 seat auditorium for his church and used 4 boxes with two ported Kilomax's in each box - tuned to 18hz (they don't have an organ in their contemporary church). Just one of those boxes turned up will shake the dust off of the lights.

Workmanship on those cabinets is very nice.

[95Honda]

Actually. the Kilomax were next on my list under McCauley. I just wanted more of a true subwoofer as far as low bass. The Kilomax is an awesome driver, but if you want that last bottom octave grunt, there are better choices. If I couldn't get the Aura or McCauley, I would have used the Kilos or the 1100 watt Selenium 18" unit, I used a few of them last year, they also rock...

[speakerboy]

It was a big thing in PA (Pennsylvania, not Public Address) last year to use McCauley drivers in people's cars as subs. I guess they figured with the power handling, but the boxes were a little big for the average person. A little too brutal for me. I'm more of a bass finesse guy (IDQ vs. XXX18).

So I can share your information along, do you think the Aura has more push lower down in the scale without having to push it down there with box tuning? I have to see if he will send me pics of this box he built for a 5000 member church in Philly. Two of the sides are 4'x8' sheets, and he uses 2"x4"s as braces. 4 Eminence drivers ported to 18hz. Killer.

[95Honda]

I'll let you know when it's done.

Just remember that the Aura has almost 2X the stroke as the Eminence, so that may be the edge down on the last octave...

And yep, the big McCauleys need big boxes to get down low and still maintain efficiency..

[95Honda]

OK, the first NRT18-8 came in today. These things look pretty sweet. I also found out that have an underhung motor, didn't realize that untill now, sweet... Also, power compression is also supposedly extremely low... This things should be awesome. I had to make some spacers for the grill mounts since the frame flange and front gasket are so thick on this driver, but that should help keep the cone from hitting the grill under full stroke anyway. They fit in the cabinets great considering the cut-outs were for the Adire drivers. The woofers and grill mounts are all 1/4-20 thread bolts, nice and sturdy. The first woofer got here in 6 days. Aura customer service and shipping is top-notch.

[95Honda]

Here is some more pictures of the carpeting. Took almost 4 gallons of contact cement for this....

[speakerboy]

How does the tuning on the box work out for these drivers, considering the box wasn't built for them? I guess it's easier for you to get contact cement instead of the Super 77 spray adhesive. You would probably have to use about 10 cans of the stuff anyway.

[95Honda]

The speakers model pretty good in these boxes, in fact it happens that Aura has a suggested alignment for H/T that is almost identicle to this. I really don't use Super77 much, it isn't as strong as regular contact cement, IMO.

Well, they are done. OMFG!!!! These are insane. I didn't realize they would be as loud as they are. They are insane. We let Little John "Throw it up" go full tilt for the entire song. Rattle the crap out of everything. Almost undescribable.... Intense pressure like in a decent SPL setup when you stand about 3-4 feet from the drivers. I couldn't be happier. Also, took a close up of the Spider, bear in mind that is a 4" VC in the middle.... Oh yeah, there is another spider about 1" below the one you can see...

[Kyle Richardson]

They look great Mike! Good job.

[95Honda]

Thanks Kyle.

I am so happy with the way they turned out. The Aura woofers are simply amazing subs. I just wish they weren't so expensive. I think that is why alot of people are turned away from them. I'll tell you what though, if anyone ever askes me to build them bad-to-the bone PA subs and gives me a healthy budget, they will be my first choice. I still would have liked to try the McCauleys, but the more I read, the more I think I made the right choice.

I think I will try and find someone who wants some large home subs and try some of the big TC sounds subs sometime in the future. Not necessarily the LMS, but the big 4000 or 5400 series. I really have been wanting to try those out. It will also give me an excuse to design and build some active EQ systems....

I am just glad this system is getting done. My new equipment racks came in today also. I am just waiting on the Outlaw processor that shipped a few weeks ago and one last Partsexpress box that has all the cabling and connectors I need to finish everything up.

I wish you guys could have seen the looks on peoples faces today when they got slammed by these things... Jaws were dropping.... I don't think one single person here has ever experienced bass this intense.

I think I'll actually have this knocked out in time to make it home by mid Jan.... We'll see...

-Mike

[MikeS]

"I think I'll actually have this knocked out in time to make it home by mid Jan.... We'll see..."

Man, I would love to hear those beasts.

Lemme know when you get back. I'll try like hell to get this Eico ST-70 7591 push-pull amplifier together and going when you return.
I got a good 12 days off, so there is really no reason not to get it going by then.
Didn't your Dynaco ST-70 need a rectifier tube?

[95Honda]

Sounds good.

I still have to get the left channel of my mains amp up and running when I get back also....

I picked up a rectifier tube about a year ago while I was back in Seattle. I just haven't had a chance to put it in yet...

[95Honda]

The full install will be begin on Tuesday and be finished on Wed. I'll post a bunch of pics when it's done.

[speakerboy]

Sweet!! Can't wait for those pics.

[darkside]

Hey, some quick questions...What did you do about bracing for the casters on those things? Also, about how much would you say each one weighs?

[95Honda]

The casters had a large mounting plate (5" x 5") and I used grade 8, 3/8" bolts and nuts with 1 1/2" diameter washers on the inside of the cabinets. I torqued them as tight as I could with a 3/8" ratchet and the washers just barely sunk in to the MDF. I think it will be planty strong, the cabinets walls are 1 1/4" thick anyways...

I think the weight is over 400lbs each, but I would have to throw them on a scale. They are very, very hard to lift up, it takes 2 people, 4 make it more managable.....

[95Honda]

Ok, I finished everything up a few days ago.

I can start off by saying, OMFG! This theater system is incredible! I simply cannot tell you how awesome the sound is.... Everything went really good, it took one day (12 hours, 5 guys) to install everything. Everything fit great and worked right off the bat. The Outlaw processor is absolutely kick-ass, not a hint of noise, hum or hiss and processing that seems to really work well. The center channel array throws out the vocals with a solid clarity that reminds me of the very best theaters... The bass, crap, it's awesome. Completely overkill... When you you run the start-up menu on the processor with the test tones and let the subwoofer tone go balls' out, it actually hurts with pressure on your eardrums, and this is at very low frequencies.... During movies when the bass seems to be really cranking away, the -10db lights on the amps are barely flickering, I have yet to see them clip at any playback level during a movie... Absolutely awesome.... All movies seem to sound great, they even play VHS tapes the military gets of movies that are just out in the theaters, I was extremely skeptical about playing them.... But even they sound decent and clear, the worst part is the picture with the 30' x 20' screen (We are running the $20K Eike Powerhouse projector with like 6k lumens or something ridiculous like that) I ordered a $4k line quadrupler, hopefully it gets here soon. The surround channels work great also, the set-up actually sounds reall good no matter where in the theater you are. I will post pictures soon, I have some crappy ones now, there were some better ones taken, I'm just waiting to get copies.

[95Honda]

Ok, here is a view of the front of the equipment rack. On the top right are 3 wireless mic recievers and in the middle is a Mackie 16 channel mixer. The right rack houses two laptops and a workstation. The pictures turned out a little dusty looking....

[95Honda]

Back of the racks..

[95Honda]

Here is one of the sub/mains combo on stage...

[95Honda]

Here is a good view of the entire front of the stage from about halfway back from the front, right behind the racks. The racks are about right smack in the middle of the theater. This is where I calibrated all the audio from. Best seat in the house...

[95Honda]

Here is the guts of the racks. There was alot of wiring done here. I made all the cables also, they are Dayton mic cable with Neutrik ends. Awesome thing is, everything worked perfect the first time, no wiring mistakes! I am pretty happy about that one....

[BKOLFO4]

That is awesome dude. . . .

[MikeS]

Here is the guts of the racks. There was alot of wiring done here. I made all the cables also, they are Dayton mic cable with Neutrik ends. Awesome thing is, everything worked perfect the first time, no wiring mistakes! I am pretty happy about that one....

That's nice work, Mike. I get a headache just looking at all that wire.

Pardon my dumb question, but are the wireless receivers used for transmitting signals to the power amps?
I see a amp on a sub, I think......

[95Honda]

The system actually does double duty. It is for movies half the time and for events the other half. I have 3 wireless mics that feed into the 16 channel mixer, along with 3 computers and 10 wired runs down to jacks on the stage. The mixer feeds into an auxillary input on the processor set up for 2-channel stereo. That way we don't have to set anything up when they need PA support... I works really good.

The amps on the sub cabinets are the sub amps, I have balanced audio line level feeds run down to them to cut the power loss of trying to shove 3000 watts through 200' of speaker wire...

[doc]

Looks great, how long for me to get one for the house?

[Member02]

wow, about time you get it all working! I just wish I had something better than my 8" bose sub in my house... hehe, I should move my 18MT inside...

[95Honda]

I love my XXX18s in my H/T.... I have never heard bass so intense inside a house before.... The quality is top notch also...

I bet an MT in the right box would do the job. Cool thing about 18s, you can use almost anything and you'll still have all the displacement you would ever need for H/T sub..... Some drivers just might need a real big box.

Does anyone have any measured T/S parameters of an MT? I would like to model one and see how it stacks up.... I know they are very efficient and have plenty of stroke, but that is all I know..... I haven't built a box for one yet...

[Member02]

I love my XXX18s in my H/T.... I have never heard bass so intense inside a house before.... The quality is top notch also...

I bet an MT in the right box would do the job. Cool thing about 18s, you can use almost anything and you'll still have all the displacement you would ever need for H/T sub..... Some drivers just might need a real big box.

Does anyone have any measured T/S parameters of an MT? I would like to model one and see how it stacks up.... I know they are very efficient and have plenty of stroke, but that is all I know..... I haven't built a box for one yet...

hmm... I used to have mine, when I ordered mine I wanted it to have the lowest FS possible, so it's one of the few dual 2ohm 18" MTs you'll ever see, they helped me out and made it to work the best on lower freqs, not the typical need for someone buying an MT...

again, I'm not trying to do good in SPL, I just wanna do good in Driveby SPL for MECA

I've done a 127.4dB driveby with a 15" XXX tuned to 23hz with the old scholl Ampman Revolution 1500 amp. after a bunch of testing and changing subs and boxes I think I've figured out how to continue high schooring outside the vehicle. Or course black00 and others argue with my ideas, but I'll have to wait and see what happens in spring