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Forceaudio > Forceaudio > Box and Crossover Design > need a 3-way design
 
Forceaudio > Forceaudio > Box and Crossover Design > need a 3-way design
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Author Topic: need a 3-way design  (Read 1691 times)
TalNLnky
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« on: September 07, 2005, 03:59:46 pm »
You knew it was coming...

Mid: CSS WR125S (4.5" XBL^2)
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF
Fs: 68 Hz
Qes: 0.77
Qms: 3.85
Qts: 0.64
Vas: 5.8L
Sd: 57 cm^2
Xmax: 6mm one way
Re: 7 Ohms
Le: 0.32 mH
BL: 4.01 N/A
Mms: 4.3 grams
SPL: 85.6 dB @ 1W, 1m

MidBass: Adire Koda 8
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/OldAdireDrivers.pdf
Re (Ohms) 3.4
Z (Ohms) 4
Le (mH) 1.1
Fs (Hz) 32
Qms 6.50
Qes 0.42
Qts 0.39
Vas (L) 36
Sd (cm^2) 189
Xmax (mm) 12.0
Pmax (W) 150
SPL (1W, 1m) 86.3

Tweet: Adire ACA

couldn't find specs for the ACA, so here's the specs for the peerless version (which i may just end up using)
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/peerless/841939.pdf
RDC 2000
Thiele Small parameters:
Nominal impedance Zn (ohm) 4
Minimum impedance/at freq. Zmin (ohm/Hz) 3.2/3500
Maximum impedance Zo (ohm) 4.0
DC resistance Re (ohm) 3.0
Voice coil inductance Le (mH) 0.1
Resonance Frequency fs (Hz) 1400
Mechanical Q factor Qms 1.13
Electrical Q factor Qes 3.53
Total Q factor Qts 0.86
Mechanical resistance Rms (Kg/s) 1.26
Moving mass Mms (g) 0.16
Suspension compliance Cms (mm/N) 0.08
Effective cone diameter D (cm) 2.6
Effective piston area Sd (cm²) 5.3
Force factor Bl (N/A) 1.1
Reference voltage sensitivity
Re 2.83V 1m at 3500 Hz (Measured)
(dB) 91.5



ok... there's the specs, just need a design that'll get me started. Of course you're the one that knows how to do this, so i won't tell you how to do your job.... but here's what i had in mind...

Koda 8 lowpass around 200hz (either Aperiodic, or extremely small sealed)
CSS hi-pass around 200hz (either IB in doors, or extremely small sealed box)
Tweet Hi-pass around 8khz, with a decent sized resistor to tame it down A LOT (probably mounted in the A pillars)
I will have 200x2 @4ohm (400x2 @2ohm) to push this passive 3-way setup. I don't see that causing any problems, but it should be kept in mind.


goal with the tweet is ONLY to help raise the soundstage and add that last octave (10khz-20khz) that the CSS mid can't  play very well.



I know you're busy mike, and this isn't exactly a 10minute project, So take your time, and thanks for anything you're able to come up with. I'm just looking for a ball park design that'll get my close enuf to where i can do some experimenting.

thanks
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Forceaudio
« on: September 07, 2005, 03:59:46 pm »
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95Honda
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2005, 05:20:49 am »
Give me a few days, I'll get you a good start....
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TalNLnky
Guest
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 11:07:31 am »
Quote from: 95Honda
Give me a few days, I'll get you a good start....


kick ass, You're awesome!!!
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Forceaudio
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2005, 11:07:31 am »
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95Honda
Guest
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 06:10:03 am »
Here is what I'm thinking so far.  I kind of would like to see about a 200Hz point between the Koda 8 and the CSS driver.  I want to have a sharp slope on the bottom of the CSS because you will be using a lot of power.  I am thinking 3rd order ont he bottom of the CSS, and either 3rd or 1st order on the top of the Koda.  I think we'll start with 3rd order, but if there seems to be a gap there, we'll go to 1st oder on the Koda.  We'll let the CSS run full range on top.  We'll cross the tweeter around 10K, because that is really all your need as far as the highs.  We'll go with a steep slope to start with on the tweeter and attenuate it a bunch also.  I'm looking at 4th order on the tweet.

Here are some values to start with-

Koda 8-

L1- 4.0mh, L2- 1.3mh, C1-300uf

CSS 4.5-

C1- 65uf, C2- 200uf, L1- 4.75mh

Tweeter-

C1- 3.5uf, C2- 5uf, L1- .03mh, L2- .125mh, R1- 2.7ohm, R2-  2.187ohm

I have most of these parts already that you can use while prototyping this crossover.
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95Honda
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 11:10:41 am »
Also, for the tweet, we could go with the Audax tweet and Adire crossover for it.  I can get that tweeter for $12.65, and I know it integrates well with the CSS driver with that crossover....  Might be a good idea, then all we would have to worry about is intregrating the Koda and CSS driver...  It would cut out alot of the design work.....
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TalNLnky
Guest
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2005, 04:45:35 pm »
Quote from: 95Honda
Also, for the tweet, we could go with the Audax tweet and Adire crossover for it.  I can get that tweeter for $12.65, and I know it integrates well with the CSS driver with that crossover....  Might be a good idea, then all we would have to worry about is intregrating the Koda and CSS driver...  It would cut out alot of the design work.....


My concern...
I planned on mounting the tweet in the sail panel with no aiming (the Adire tweet is supposed to be pretty darn good at off axis). Do you think the audax would work well in this type of install? or would i have to aim it?


that'd be great if i could just borrow the parts from you until i decide on a design and buy some good parts for it. Go ahead and round up the various parts, if you don't have some, just let me know which ones, and i'll go order them.



i'm thinking about trying an IB setup with those Koda8's first just to see if its decent or not... i really wanted to stay away from IB... but ehhh my car does not want me to install 8's in the kicks.
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95Honda
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2005, 06:05:24 am »
Even if you do need to aim the tweeter, it is tiny, almost as small as a car audio tweeter......

But you might not have to, I'll look into it a little more...
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Forceaudio
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2005, 06:05:24 am »
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TalNLnky
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2005, 01:12:48 pm »
well the koda8's don't even come close to fitting in the stock 5x7 locations... they'd need around a 1" spacer. Unfortunetly that'd be too big to still fit the drivers underneath the door panel. SO... i either get to cut up my door fairly good, or go for the extremis.

i really don't want to go with an 8ohm driver, so i'll see on sunday (when i have time) how much of the door i'd have to cut up.
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95Honda
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2005, 02:14:36 pm »
Build some pods onto the door.  I'll show you how....  We could make them look damn good, big.....  but good....
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TalNLnky
Guest
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2005, 10:04:36 pm »
Quote from: 95Honda
Build some pods onto the door.  I'll show you how....  We could make them look damn good, big.....  but good....


sure... if you're willing to help, i'll jump on that offer.
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Robert
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2005, 11:55:06 pm »
Quote from: 95Honda
Build some pods onto the door.  I'll show you how....  We could make them look damn good, big.....  but good....


Take pics, I wanna see Cheesy
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Robert
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2005, 11:58:37 pm »
Quote from: TalNLnky
or go for the extremis.

i really don't want to go with an 8ohm driver, so i'll see on sunday (when i have time) how much of the door i'd have to cut up.


Yeah, dont use my idea  :lol:  :roll:

I'll buy one of them K8's off ya.. I wouldnt mind an even amount hehe.
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TalNLnky
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2005, 05:33:20 pm »
Quote from: Robert
Quote from: TalNLnky
or go for the extremis.

i really don't want to go with an 8ohm driver, so i'll see on sunday (when i have time) how much of the door i'd have to cut up.


Yeah, dont use my idea  :lol:  :roll:

I'll buy one of them K8's off ya.. I wouldnt mind an even amount hehe.


slow down... i'm waiting til mike takes a gander at these doors & K8's... if he still thinks we can make them fit... and look decent, then i'm keeping them.
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Forceaudio
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2005, 05:33:20 pm »
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95Honda
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2005, 04:18:57 pm »
Tal-

I found an extra set of components for doing the Adire 4th order alignment on the Audax tweet to interface with the CSS......  We can try those, it is simpler than my crossover and will probably sound just as good/better.....
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TalNLnky
Guest
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2005, 10:34:29 pm »
Quote from: 95Honda
Tal-

I found an extra set of components for doing the Adire 4th order alignment on the Audax tweet to interface with the CSS......  We can try those, it is simpler than my crossover and will probably sound just as good/better.....


k....

oh yeah.... 2 weekends ago i hit up the junk yard, didn't have my door panels.... will have to keep checking.  Someday.... Someday i'll get those 8's installed.
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Forceaudio
   
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