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MikeS
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« on: March 26, 2008, 12:29:48 am » |
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Spotted a ad on Craigslist last SAT. "Entertainment center with RETRO components. $75."
No mention of the brand of components. But my trained eye spotted a Eico unit.
I had thought it may have been a HF-81 6BQ5 PP integrated amplifier, (wotta score that would have been) but with a little research on pics of the Eico HF series, I knew it was a HF-85 pre-amp.
I figured that was worth 75 bucks right there, and called the guy. I left a message and a email.
Easter Sunday. I'm about ready to go to mommie's house, and the phone rings.
It's Don with the entertainment center.
He explains he's moving over to the west side of the state, wife's passed away, time to be by the kids. Been there over 40 years, the guy had to be close or at 90 years old.
He just wanted to get rid of the stuff, considering his age and the place he had, I really doubt he was concerned about the actual value of the audio gear.
So I got a Musicmaster Turntable, a serious old school TT with STEREO cartridge, and set up for stereo. I never seen or heard of one in my life.
A Webster Electric Reel to Reel with the Controler. The control unit is a left and right mono unit, all tube of course. It's a stereo unit, quite the vintage piece.
With old RTR tapes to boot...
The Eico HF-85 pre-amplifier. Factory wired, and appears to be in nice shape electrically. He did say he had to swap out a tube once.
Cosmetically, this little pre-amp looks rather good for a Eico. They are usually rusted-out pieces of shit.
Hopefully, it ramp up and work in total stock form....big hope, but it would be cool....time warp sound....
The big prize is the Altec Lansing 345A stereo power amplifier. A 6CA7/EL-34 60 watt PP power amp. It must be rare, there is no info on the internet other than Sams photofacts.
It uses Peerless transformers. One of the Peerless OPT's is worth 75 bucks easy I'm thinkin'. It has mismatched brands of EL-34's, one Amperex EL-34 Bugle Boy, two Mullard/GE labled 6CA7/EL-34, and a Tungsol 6CA7.
So this amp has ate some final tubes in it's day.
It had the operating instructions. On the front is the work someone did.
1 tube. Which doesn't match any of the tubes the amp uses. One 10 watt resistor, 120 ohms.
Yup, found that.
New wiring. Yeah, I bet it was....
A terminal strip. Yup, found that too. 11 bucks for the work.
OK, what I think happened is a resistor or a cap come unglued, or a shorted wire...who knows. It's around the filament winding side of the PS transformer.
There is black burn marks, and the 5 volt winding leads looked to have gotten hot. There was a terminal strip right underneath the PS xformer.
The guy drilled out the old terminal strip right underneath the PS xformer, and moved a new terminal strip in a different spot with a resistor.
In the process of drilling out the out terminal strip, this loser used a 1/4" bit and went through the chassis, and about a 1/8" into the bottom of the power transformer laminations.
Nice job for 11 bucks......I'm still trying to figure out what he fixed, it don't look right. I would have brought it back, and told him to order another PS transformer, and pay my 11 bucks back.
So I dunno about this PS xformer, it may be wanked. I'll have to start testing/inspecting it to see. Maybe I can find a new Hammond replacement bolt-in for a worst case scenerio.
Some Altec hating mouse shit and pissed all over the chassis, it pretty much needs a overhaul I suppose. The cage and faceplate still look nice, however.
The Altec should be a good sounding powerful amp once up to snuff.
A pair of Altec 415A Biflex speakers in his homebrew cabinets. The cabs were pretty rough and nothing special. The 415A's are in good shape still.
A mono Truetone tuner.
And the entertainment center. He made it out of veneered mahogany and solid mahogany. It's got it imperfections due to age, but it's still pretty cherry.
I like the looks of it, and how it's set up.
It cost me 75 bucks, 20 bucks worth of gas, and a days work, but I think it was worth it.
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Forceaudio
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« on: March 26, 2008, 12:29:48 am » |
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todd.brust
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 07:41:30 am » |
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Wow I'd say you got one hell of a deal!
Those Altec speakers look wicked. Where is the picture of the Reel to Reel? I have never heard R to R or know anything about them. Any benefits to Reel to Reel?
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95Honda
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 10:37:22 am » |
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Dude.... Sweet... I really think I want to put together some vintage stuff when I make it back to the states.....
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Forceaudio
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 10:37:22 am » |
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MikeS
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 12:27:03 pm » |
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Ol' Don assembled quite the rig in his day.
I figure he probably purchased most this stuff in the late '50's, early '60's.
I told him that I'm not just some eBay puke looking for some easy cash, and that I will actually use some of the components.
And I'm going to use the entertainment center for my gear.
I think he appreciated that. Hell, he just appeciated the company.
Old guy is in his '90's. Built the place out by Post Falls right on Mcguire and Grange road 40 years ago, looks like about 20 acres. The guy is pretty much a farmer. He looks like one.....
Just him and the dog....wife passed on 9 years ago. He ain't totally lonely, the neighbors are like family as well considering the time he's been there.
So he kinda regrets moving....but he's got the 5th wheel travel trailer out in the front ready to move to Bonnie lake on his kid's property.
He was telling me how the water table for the wells worked around there, with water coming from the local foothills up north of the basin area. And how the sub-development next door ruined all the water pressure for all the major wells in the area.
I tried to visit with Don as long as I could, I didn't want to come across as some asshole that just wants to pay him and get the hell out of there. I find that rude depending on the person. In the case of a guy his age, it would have been really rude.
Here's pics of the Altec amp, and the damage I found. You can kinda see where the guy drilled out the terminal strip, and right through into the bottom of the PS xformer.
It don't look good.......I'll tear down the PS xformer and inspect. If the windings ain't cooked along with the paper, I'll move on to the testing/measuring stage. If it don't shake rattle and hum at 117-120 volts unloaded, then I'll heatshrink the shit out of the filament leads and hope for the best.
But I dunno if a 1/6" or 1/8" hole drilled right into the PS xformer's lamination stack will have any harmful effects.
I guess I'll find out......
This amp will need a full check-up. I hope those OPT's aren't trashed.....that would just suck serious ass. The leads look good though, and I'll measure them for continuity/DCR.
If they are fried, this amp ain't worth nuthin'.
I've been cleaning the little Eico pre-amp bit by bit. It starting to look somewhat new. Most resistors are in tolerance. There is a couple 10% ones that are more like 13% off.
I'll just ramp it up on the variac and give it a shot after careful cleaning of the pots.
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todd.brust
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 05:46:58 pm » |
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Older folk love the company. I am the same way. The older EE who is allways at the local Hi-Fi shop loves to talk. I spent at least a good two hours talking to him last time i saw him, and he's full of useful knowledge.
Good luck with all that stuff. I'm excited to see how the Altec turns out.
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MikeS
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2008, 01:07:42 am » |
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Thanks, Todd.
Yup. When I used to visit my audio buddy Dan on Saturdays, I knew I would be there at least 6-8 hours.
Enjoyed every minute, in spite of the generation gap. We both loved audio, rapped, and listened for hours. We BS about other things as well.
Meeting and visiting him I learned quite a bit. I have forgotten even more.
I wouldn't know half the shit about vintage audio if it were not for Dan, or the basic vacuum tube knowledge I aquired.
He showed me how to build a HI-FI system, almost bordering on Ultra-Fi, and be able to do it cheap, poverty level cheap.
What to look for, what it's worth. How to build and tune bass reflex cabinets, and how to use various drivers with the cabinets.
Don't be afraid of vintage solid state, or SS in general. Don't buy into the tubes is better than SS BS. Tubes can sound excellent of course, but so can a SS amp. The DIY cost factor with tubes is much cheaper than a say a good DIY SS amplifier.
Don't be afraid to try things. That speaker may look cheap, but it may sound great. He discovered the Criterion 100B ten inch bastard woofer that could.
I miss the visits.....
I haven't even fired up the little Maggotbox amp I rebuilt, no time.
Hopefully this weekend. I may fire up the little Eico HF-85 pre-amp, and feed it to the Maggotbox.
I guess the Altec may as well be the next project.
I didn't want to go ground up with it. But considering the mouse filth, the PS transformer issue, and a possible suspect main B+ can, it's looking that way.
I may as well pull the iron and the faceplate, and clean the chassis up the best I can. I may just paint it this time around....I'm not polishing out a cadium plated chassis again, life is way too short.....
It's just a power amp, and not a integrated. And I have a original Altec schematic.
So the chances of making it a squealing mess are less. Then again....
Re-cap, check R's, replace as needed. Re-cap the negative supply. Install new coupling caps. I may as well buy a quad of EH EL-34's. They aren't too bad on cost.
I'm knee deep in 5U4's, so I can match up a pair of the same brand.
Got shitloads of 6AU6. I can pilfer some nice one to use. Hopefully, the RCA 6C4's are still good. I don't have any.
I need to sell some stuff....
Sorry about the long droning posts. I get bored.....so I thought I'd pass it on....
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todd.brust
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 07:56:31 am » |
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I wish I could go talk to John more often. The guy is a genius in my book. He's a big tube guy. And he's really knowledgeable with RF equipment. I will have to give him a call in the coming weeks. So now I have a question for you Mike, when don't you have a project that you are working on? LOL Ever since i have been on Force you have had some project. But then again i have had a few. A few sub enclosures and my tube amp. Speaking of sub enclosures, I have to get pictures of the install I did for that f-150 Regular cab. But I am off now to finish My amp today (hopefully). All I have left is to fabricate that back plate out of some sheet metal and isolate is from the chassis but I have it all planned out. Then power it up and see how everything works  |
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Forceaudio
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 07:56:31 am » |
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MikeS
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2008, 12:54:53 am » |
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"So now I have a question for you Mike, when don't you have a project that you are working on?"
Not very often if at all.
The Altec 345A amplifier is a rare beast, it must be.....
Do a google search on the amp. All I come up with is eBay listings for Sam's photofacts. A site had some sort of info on a mint 345A that sold online somewhere in 2000 for $900.
There isn't much info if any online with regard to the Peerless ouput transformers this amplifier uses.
The guy that has the blueprints and paperwork/info/rights for the Peerless transformers is Mike (Lafavre?) of Magnaquest. He was kind enough to give some simple specs like primary impedance, secondary taps #'s, etc...
I've done 6BQ5 to the point of redundacy. They are a good sounding tube, even single ended. I've got what I think is a pretty damn good homebrew SET amp for the cash, and still have it.
Now, I wanna do some PP EL-34 pounding with some Rock n Roll. That amp should get the LaScala's in full boogie mode.
The ol' timer fed the Altec amp with this little Eico HF-85.
Brushed and blew the dust, a little rubbing compound, and a good polish on the faceplate with some 0000 steel wool.
That's what a bone stock factory wired 1959 Eico looks like, except the knobs that fade over time to blue?
I do have brown knobs pinched from discarded Eico HF-12's that I will probably use.
Eico made cheap shit in the day, but they made interesting decent designs, and used pretty good output iron in their amplifiers.
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95Honda
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2008, 07:19:36 am » |
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You know, I kick myself in the ass almost everyday for not forking out the $4-500 in parts to build a Debut (our 35wpc EL-34PP amp) for myself while I worked at Audioprism. I built over a hundred of them, they sold for $5K each in thier last revision..... I swear, they were some of the best sounding pieces for the money.... All I thought about was pussy and cars then.......
I really want to do a PP EL-34 amp again, something to biamp with my SS amp.... Build a set of 3-ways that use the SS on bottom and the tubes for the midbass on up.... That would be sweet.... And an active crossover... Like a Bryston 10-B or the likes..... With some stupid expensive coil and cap for the mid and tweet.... Someday...
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MikeS
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 12:12:34 am » |
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The amplifier is all done. I just need to ramp it up and start checking things over. Swallow my balls and go for the smoke test. I've been busy listing stuff on eBay.......the Eico pre-amp is next.  |
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JimJ
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 08:15:00 am » |
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Very cool |
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MikeS
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 12:46:47 am » |
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Ok, so nothing smoked. But I did have a short to a socket screw/nut against a terminal post with 300 volts DC sitting on it. It took a couple days to find it, and it shouldn't have taken that long. After checking resistor tolerance and for shorted caps, I basically got baffled. Pretty much give up and Email the retired EE friend. "Either you have a shorted electrolytic capacitor, or a short to chassis or a circuit ground." And then pretty much told me to dig in that chassis and search for errors, shorts, pieces or wire, solder or whatever....pay attention...... It didn't take too much longer to find the error. Felt kinda dumb, but if you don't ask, then that's kinda dumb too......  So I move the tag strip so the terminal isn't shorted to the socket bridle/screw/nut, and now have voltage across the screen and plate resistors for 6AU6. But the voltage differences between each side for driver/phase inverter tubes 6AU6 and 6C4 are all fucked up. I'm pretty sure there is a wiring error to search out on the left side, the side with the shorted terminal. Search and ponder away on that one...... Here's the way I wired the negative bias circuit. 75 VAC before the radio shack IN4007 diode or whatever, a 820 ohm dropping R, then the cap. Two separate wires go to the input of each 5K pot. I have one 5K pot chassis grounded with a right side capacitor can, the other 5K pot chassis grounded to the left side capacitor can. The first cap is chassis grounded with the left output transformer ground. When I adjust resistance/voltage for one 5K pot, it affects the resistance/voltage of the other 5K pot. So I have to search that error out. I'm thinking of running another diode, dropping resistor, and another cap. To make a separate isolated negative bias circuit for each 5K pot, to bias each pair of EL-34's. I keep cocking around, and I may eventaully get to listen to it.  |
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MikeS
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 12:09:03 am » |
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It works, and sounds good. But I still need to get it on the scope, and have been dragging my feet........retard with math having a hard time figuring out decibel conversion.......  |
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Forceaudio
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2009, 12:09:03 am » |
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95Honda
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2009, 12:04:32 pm » |
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Looks real nice, I am jealous... I still haven't got my Debut, I think I may just pick it up when we are home in April....
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MikeS
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2009, 02:30:34 pm » |
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Thanks, Mike.
A stock vintage (and needing work such as PS caps and whatever else) Altec 345A went for 930 bucks on eBay.
It didn't have the original volume knobs, either.
I sunk 300 into mine, with a freebie powder-coat from EZ Loader.
It may have been a good investment in long run I suppose.
I suppose when someone offers a nice amp like the Debut, one might have to go beat on the guy's door......."Just happened to be in the neighborhood."........"Oh by the way".....
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Forceaudio
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