My local audio friend has a son who has a techno sort of band, and has his own CD and etc.....

He lives down in Sacramento, and has been fairly popular in the local circles around the area and San Francisco playing clubs or whatever.

We heard the CD......it was alright, but it didn't really float Dan's or my boat much.

Dan's son (the kid's name is Dan Marshall like the ol' man) is in the market for a pro sound subwoofer with sound quality as the major factor.


This is Dan's quoted email:
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""My kid is in the market for a subwoofer that is capable of flat output down to around 30 Hz at fairly high power levels, high enough to use in a club.  We listened to a pair of large JBL Dual 18 subs at a music store and were appalled at how wretched they sounded.  They would thump for sure at a kilowatt with a woody, thumpy sounding bass, but when the music dropped down below 40 Hz the output all but disappeared.  The term ‘sub’, applied to them, is a total misnomer, as I see it.  I forget the model number, but they were a current version, one that is over 4 ft tall with a stylish grill and tapered enclosure.

 

He has been using the homebrew sub in his home studio that I discussed here a few years back, (the one with the mixing chamber with the woofers mounted on either side) using a pair of Peerless TA305F 12 inch woofers (that I recently re-foamed).  I had installed a pair of JBL auto sound woofers temporarily, but they didn’t sound nearly as good as the old Peerless woofers.  It sounds totally excellent with clean, clear, smooth bass down to 30 Hz at fairly high power levels; say, up to a few hundred watts, which in itself is surprising.  I doubt that it would hold up very long in a club environment though, or whether it could even keep up with the mains.  One thing for sure is that it has totally spoiled him by developing a taste for high quality low bass.  It totally shames all the Pro subs we have heard so far in terms of bass quality and extension.

 

The JBL mains at the music store also sounded totally wretched.  Surprisingly, at another store a pair of Peavey mains sounded totally excellent, more like a pair of high quality stereo speakers, which was not at all what I expected from Peavey gear.

 

Bag End advertises clean bass with low end extension down to very low frequencies.  I am familiar with them from a theoretical viewpoint, but I have no experience with them, nor have I heard them, or even been able to find a music store that carries them.  To achieve good low end extension in a reasonable size they use a sealed enclosure with fs somewhere around 95 Hz, which causes a 12 dB/octave low end roll off below fs.  A 12 dB/octave active equalizer across the audio band is used to correct the response below fs to flat (they claim -3 dB at 8 Hz) and to provide a 12 dB/octave roll off above fs.  Of course, this approach is a tradeoff between enclosure size, amplifier power and maximum acoustic output.  The high amount of amplifier power required limits the maximum output level, both from voice coil dissipation limitations and from the greater cone excursion required by a sealed design (though he doesn’t plan to drive them below 30 Hz).

 

This brings me to my question.  Does anyone have any experience with Bag End subs in a professional music environment?  If so, what are your impressions?  Do they really have enough balls to perform in a Pro environment without requiring several?  I am specifically interested in the dual 18 inch version, the D18E-I.  Any info based upon actual experience in a pro music application would be appreciated, either for Bag End subs or other subs.  It seems that most Pro systems settle for gobs of thumping bass that doesn’t go very low, but that is not what we are looking for.  A very large enclosure is required for gobs of very low bass, which isn’t conducive to being conveniently toted about.  He is more into quality with good bass extension than into head-banging, gut-wrenching SPL.

 

I started building a second identical sub to the home brew one discussed above, but the weather turned cold before I finished it.  I would need another pair of the TA305Fs for it, so if anyone has a spare pair please let me know.  They have aluminum voice coils rated at 205 watts dissipation each, so are a little more robust than most HiFi speakers.  Re-foaming is no problem; I already have new surrounds.

 

Dan Marshall""
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Dan has tried to email Tom Danley with regards to his products, but I guess the dude's giving him the silent treatment.....

Any thoughts on pro sound sub/subs that would fit this application?

Idea #1 pair of Peavey 18" Low Rider subs (10mm Xmax, 28Hz FS) In vented boxes tuned @30Hzish.  Low end would be much better than the comercial offerings, efficency would be good, 700+ watts a side would be what you need.  Downside would possibly be some pretty big cabs if you wanted to exploit the low tuning, they would also be pretty heavy if they were built right.  BIG port a must, 50in2 at least.... Subs are less than $200 each

-or-

4 Dayton DVC 15's... Vented boxes @30Hzish....  Would hammer out the lows and net an 8ohm per cab load (2 woofs per cab) have enormous low end output capabilities in small to medium sized venues and would only require about 500Watts per cab...  Subs are around $100 each... 5 year warrantee...

Should send him this link:

http://www.servodrive.com/basstech7.html

These things look sweet. Wish I could hear one in person.